In the book of Judges we have the famous line, “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.” In the recent incident involving Ralph Messer and Bishop Eddie Long at New Birth Missionary Baptist church just a small distance from my home, we see the fruit of self-authorized, unaccountable religious groups built on popularity and sensationalism. There is a big message for Messianic and Judeo-Christian folk.
WHAT DO I MEAN BY MESSIANIC AND JUDEO-CHRISTIAN?
I have written often about the types of Messianic congregations that exist out there. See one of my recent attempts to classify what the visitor to a Messianic congregation might encounter.
I don’t believe a person like Ralph Messer could possibly be raised up in a Jewish Messianic Jewish congregation (many of you know why I have to place the word “Jewish” in front of “Messianic Jewish” as an adjective!). This is not because I think that somehow Jewish followers of Yeshua (Jesus) are less gullible on the whole. But I think that there has been a culture in Jewish life in America (and outside of America) which expects some level of decorum, accountability, and education in a rabbi and at a synagogue.
But in the anything-goes world of crazy Christian groups, hooting and hollering are a sign of success! And I am in no way referring to the culture in black churches in America, having grown out of the slavery experience. The spirit, enthusiasm, and loud vocal patterns in the black Baptist churches I have visited — the good ones with trained ministers accountable to a denomination — are nothing like the televangelist trash culture. It’s no coincidence that in the movie “Keeping the Faith,” Ben Stiller’s character (a Reform rabbi) called on the local AME (or maybe Baptist) church choir to come and teach his members how to have spirit when singing the “Ein Keloheinu”!
And, as has been documented repeatedly here at Messianic Jewish Musings and on plenty of other blogs, “Messianic” has become a gimmick. If you attend a concert at some “Messianic” places, members of the audience bring shofars to blow like stadium noisemakers! Ralph Messer’s televangelist strut back and forth on the stage while the magic, shamanistic icon of the Torah Scroll was being shown to the uninitiated audience (not their fault they don’t know about a Torah Scroll) was only one extreme example of a large trend. Jewish festivals, sancta, rituals, and prayers are not holy relics which will elevate a person to a higher status with God or in the world. They are not play-toys or holy hand-grenades of Antioch!
Many seekers of true faith seek out a “Messianic” or “Hebrew Roots” or “Ephraimite” or “Two House” or “One Torah” group because they think these are more legitimate, that something is wrong with Christian denominations. Foolishly, many imagine that the “Messianic” teacher who knows a smattering of Hebrew (sometimes none, sometimes a good deal of Hebrew) and has read at least five books on Judaism (some less, some more) will bring them to a higher level. It is foolish to think that Christianity, a faith which has a checkered history (welcome to the reality of being human) but which has developed works of charity and goodness all over the globe, which has spawned some of the world’s greatest literature, which has produced an elevated spiritual tradition of active love and contemplative devotion is somehow incapable of bringing a person near to God while a showman-shaman like Ralph Messer might do a better job!
What I mean by Messianic is Messianic Jewish and that means congregations primarily about Jewish faith in Yeshua, but certainly including non-Jews who believe in, are supportive of, and want to be in the Jewish movement of faith alongside Messianic Jews. What I mean by Judeo-Christian is congregations primarily about Yeshua in which there is a preference for respectful participation in Torah and Jewish liturgy and customs. I do not find it strange that many Christians want Jewish culture. I think it was inevitable. As long as Judeo-Christian groups respect other Jewish and Christian approaches to God, as long as they do not confuse people about their identity, I think they are a healthy alternative to other Christian traditions. Messianic Jews generally are positive toward Judaism and Christianity. I hope the various Judeo-Christian groups under the many labels they use will find their place and get rid of all craziness like Ralph Messer speedily and soon. I’d like to point out that I know of Judeo-Christian congregations that would be a delight for any Jew or Christian to visit.
LESSONS FROM THE MESSER DEBACLE
A commenter on “Ralph Messer is not a Messianic Jewish Rabbi” (a commenter I have recently met on Facebook and for whom I can say I have respect) said: “not belonging to any of the above mentioned Messianic groups, does not equate to illegitimacy as a Messianic Rabbi.”
I understand what this commenter was saying. But let me ask you: how is the “everyone does what is right in his own eyes” thing going? I understand that religious communities form with untrained leaders. I understand that size and success are not markers of fidelity to God.
But why must something that starts small remain isolated and unaccountable? Don’t we learn from the terrible consequences in the public media when self-styled “rabbis” cause a scandal that accountability and togetherness are a good thing?
Messianic Judaism in America has two primary associations: the UMJC and the MJAA (the congregational arm of the MJAA is actually called the IAMCS). I am a UMJC guy. If a video was made by me at some mega-church crowning kings with a Sefer Torah, I would already have been contacted and proceedings to dissociate me from the UMJC would already be underway.
Who is Ralph Messer accountable to?
I will go out on a limb and say — it is virtually impossible that any UMJC or MJAA rabbi would have done something even half as embarrassing and wrong as Ralph Messer. The disease which leads to an explosion of Messer mania is caused by the need for maintaining power, success, and image through over-the-top antics instead of principled belonging and participation in a group of congregations whose combined presence and practice gives individual congregations something larger to belong to. A rabbi or pastor in a denomination doesn’t need to self-authenticate or prance like a rooster.
Currently, there is no association for Judeo-Christian congregations which are not primarily focused on the Jewish community. I think there should be. There certainly are organizations which might be called denominations for non-Jewish “Hebraic” groups. But the ones I am aware of are based on some erroneous theology (I’m thinking, for example, of a group which holds an annual conference based on the idea that non-Jews in Yeshua might be crypto-Israelites from the “lost tribes”).
There is an organization for individual Judeo-Christians called the UMB (Union of Messianic Believers). It could be a valuable idea to explore some sort of congregational affiliation with the UMB (not sure if the UMB leadership want that or not).
And another lesson: leaders in Messianic Judaism, Judeo-Christianity, and whatever other groups out there want to call themselves should not use the term “rabbi” for themselves if they have not completed the kind of training and have not received ordination by a body of rabbis who have overseen their education. There is no shame in being a “Congregational Leader” if you have not earned the title “rabbi.” Furthermore, it is inappropriate for any non-Jew to use the title “rabbi.” Judeo-Christian groups led by non-Jews need to find titles and nomenclature that are more appropriate. A rabbi is not a “Jewish pastor,” but a person trained to function in the Jewish community as a guide to matters of law and faith. Personally, I think “pastor” is a fine title for a non-Jewish leader (and rabbis who lead congregations are also pastors, since the title pastor has to do with religious leadership of a faith community).
In short (I know, this article was not short), the incident at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Georgia, involving Ralph Messer and Bishop Eddie Long, teaches us that education, accountability, appropriate use of terminology and Jewish sancta (also Christian sancta) is required. The days of do-it-yourself “Messianic” shamanism should be over. I hope many groups will contact the UMJC and MJAA and seek information. I hope many people who have been putting up with a clown as a leader because they thought Jewish roots would make them closer to God will make an exodus from the Ralph Messers of the world and find either a good church or a Judeo-Christian group that respects Judaism and Christianity. I hope the good work being done by Messianic Judaism will not be set back a decade by the act of one shameless showman.
Shalom Derek,
It would be vrey wise for both Jews & Christians to carefully study the book of Judges again in our Tanakhim/Bibles & not make the same mistakes that have been made in the past. שלום רב בשם ישוע אדוננו
Hey Derek, it’s your friend, Derek! What about us non-denominational guys who are governed locally by a group of appointed elders? As you know, I’m Christian Church, with a biblical studies and theology degree from associated university (as well as a Columbia drop out), and our churches are loosely connected through a nationwide brotherhood, but no headquarters. I’m not saying its the best set up. Anyway, would love your thoughts!
Derek
Pastor Sweatman:
The differences between your fine church and the Ralph Messer type is easy to catalogue:
–You are part of a tradition within Christianity with your own defined sets of rituals and boundaries.
–If you desecrated communion, like say, using a wafer to anoint someone as king, your days of pastoring would likely be seriously curtailed.
–If you started teaching your people that they are members of the Lost Tribes of Israel (because the Holy Spirit told you), the exodus out the back door would begin (okay, “exodus” was a pun).
Furthermore, you have a collegium of pastors who meet regularly.
It is always possible that the free churches (Baptist, Independent Methodist, Christian, various Pentecostal and Charismatic groups) may be less organized about accountability than they should. I don’t know. Church polity is not my forte.
But Ralph Messer’s “religion” is shared precisely by himself and whomever he may fool. He is not bounded by history, tradition, or community (in any way I can see — if this is bounded behavior, I’d hate to see unbounded).
Put another way, you, Pastor Sweatman, earned your calling and were appointed by wise leaders who believed in you and sent you out to do your work. It seems to me you are accountable and could never stray off into weirdness approaching this level without consequences of a serious nature (my goodness, look at Ralph Messer’s own website!).
Derek,
I saw this and was shocked. As someone who cares for the burgeoning expression, this pretty much dashed so much of the reputation individuals like you and I have worked for. I was reading the Huffington Post and The Blaze, and now every Baptist in America is getting introduced to “Messianic Judaism.”
I hope Messer apologizes and steps down. I remember grieving when I dropped the Book of Deuteronomy in the parking lot once. I really feel for you on this one. This must’ve really hurt.
*furrowed brows of empathy*
Drake:
BTW your rabbi called me today. He is taking action along with others and asked me to join in their effort (which I will). I’m glad to see your rabbi is right with many others of us in MJ on this issue. Kudos to him and your congregation.
Means a lot to hear you say that, Rabbi.
It means a lot to me to see you and Rabbi Scott united.
Derek,
You are being insulting. You’re saying that Two House adherents are a bunch of fools. Well, I’m one of those “fools” and I could debate anyone into the ground on this issue either live or on video–including you.
Don’t lump us in with this heretic Messer. That is beneath you.
Sincerely,
Peter
“You’re saying that Two House adherents are a bunch of fools. Well, I’m one of those “fools” ”
And I there thought you were merely ‘One-Law”…
“I could debate anyone into the ground…”
It’s not a courtroom here, Peter, and its not enough for you to prove “reasonable doubt” in front of a sympathetic, like-minded Two-House audience.
You are not a secret Israelite. That is final.
I can understand not wanting to be lumped in with Messer. That is not fair. That said, many of the Namers and others online have not denounced what I saw very harshly or visibly. I could understand the slight one would feel being compared with someone calling the keter torah a “foreskin.”
Then again, believing that one is a secret Israelite is a stretch. There are Jordanians and Palestinians who have Jewish ancestry and really look it too, but I think after certain degrees of removal all the way into Europe over eons, that’s cancelled out when enough gentile women are married anyway.
Gentiles like me are called to Torah for solidarity with Israel and because it is a beautiful thing, not because someone read my palm and told me I was born special. I believe in a flood and a magical talking snake, and yet I am saying that your theology sounds like a ridiculously indefensible tree fort.
I can understand that G-d is the G-d he is, not who we always want him to be. And it’s painful sometimes. And if anyone lumped you in with Messer, that is unfair. I don’t think it’s fair that you are ridiculed, but I think what you believe is wrong and you need to accept it.
As a side note, most people in the world are out boozing, cussing, and listening to John Denver. Just the fact alone you among few others preoccupy yourself with the pursuit of Truth is a testament to your character and trajectory. You don’t need Two-House to attest to that.
Peter,
You wouldn’t last 2 minutes with any one of us……You might as well join Messer and his cohorts…..
There are many well studied Messianics who would disagree. It seems the atmosphere in here stinks of arrogance and elitism. Like the pharisees of Mashiach’s day. I have seen on this and many sites where you are applauded if you agree with the group and you all pat each other one the backs then when someone comes in with a opposing view, you attack them and criticize them and belittle them with rhetoric and insults. I do not see the spirit of humilty and desire for correction and truth here. I see people basting themselves in their own theories. I see people trying to run out anyone who offers another point of view. This means you will only know what you already know (what is right in your own eyes) or what the company tells you to think. Little growth happens that way. This is the problem with religion and why it keeps people ignorant and rewards those who fall in line and slays those who question. This is what killed the prophets who had come to challenge the errors of the religious leaders.
Everyone aroud here knows that Derek and me don’t see eye to eye on almost everything, yet he let me comment on his blog. So it will be nice if you stop your whining and say something that makes a point?
and if we are at it, I am a Jew, born and raised in Israel by Jewish parents. Can you tell what tribe I am from?
Peter:
If you believe that in the twenty-first century God is revealing crypto-Israelites whose physical descent is long ago from members of the “lost tribes” of Israel, I am surprised. Yes, I think that view is foolish, baseless, and deserves to be ridiculed. I had no idea you believed such a thing.
I apologize that I cannot be tolerant of any and all ideas. I am sorry that some are outside of the bounds of reasonable tolerance. But Holy-Spirit-revealed-lost-tribespeople 2,700 years after the Assyrian deportation ranks up there with a host of revisionist history schemes that I find laughable.
All I can say to people caught up in that sort of a mythology is: you don’t need a religious leader to tell you that you are important because you descended from lost Israelites. You are important because you are an image of God, a human being. And your holiness is not in contrived mythologies, but in relation to God and Messiah by faith and deeds of lovingkindness.
Derek,
I’ll happily debate you in front of a camera and audience. Are you game? Let’s coordinate a time this year, yes? You can pick the audience, okay? Let’s see which view is persuasive and which view is “laughable.”
-Peter
“Let’s see which view is persuasive and which view is “laughable.”
Peter, why not try debating something more plausible and perhaps less embarrassing for you and your career long term? You’re not thinking clearly and have not thought of ramifications of trying to publicly defend something so ludicrous.
Gene, Peter is right, people who dismiss two house simply don’t understand their Bible. It is obvious and not seeing it is like Christians not seeing the law is still valid.
“people who dismiss two house simply don’t understand their Bible”
“Messianic Torah”, of course I see that there are “two houses” in the Bible (see, I “understand”!). The only difference is that I reject as nonsensical the made up history concocted by your movement’s “prophetess” Batya Wooten that white Gentile Christians are really “lost” Israelites and just don’t know it. I simply laugh at the repackaged British Israelism and question intelligence of any who believe such drivel that tickles their ears.
Gene,
Have you ever heard of the invincible ignorance fallacy?
What is more embarassing: to look like a fool or to purposefully insulate oneself from reasonable evidence?
Cheers,
Peter
“What is more embarassing: to look like a fool or to purposefully insulate oneself from reasonable evidence?”
Peter, but I HAVE considered the evidence. I probably know more on this subject than your average (and not so average) “Two-Houser”. I have also conversed with major Two-House proponents extensively over the last three years. Certainly it cannot be said of me that I have “insulated” myself from the “reasonable evidence”. Far from it – I considered Two-House evidence as taught by MIA and the like-minded others, read tons of materials from those sources, and found it to be based on nothing more than British Israelism (from which many similar movements have sprung over the years) and vain imaginations of Batya Wooten on whose “experise” so many thousands have hung their hopes and dreams of some supposed glory of being flesh and blood Israelites.
Gene,
You’re clearly an expert at mischaracterizing the Two House argument (e.g. saying that this doctrine is based on British Israelism and Batya Wooten when in fact it is not based on either of those things but rather is purely based on Scripture).
The only way to keep you honest, to prevent you from mischaracterizing the Scriptural argument, is to debate publicly. I’ll keep you accountable in front of ANY audience that you choose. You can recommend any ground rules you think are appropriate and you can even select a moderator for the debate. Sound fair?
Cheers,
Peter
“The only way to keep you honest, to prevent you from mischaracterizing the Scriptural argument, is to debate publicly.”
Peter, your first mistake here was to question my honestly. That’s not a good way to initiate a healthy conversation. I don’t hold you as being dishonest regarding your Two-House beliefs, but rather I think that you have been misled (not based on what I know about you, but rather on what I know about the TH teaching and teachers).
“Two House argument… is purely based on Scripture.”
What else is new? Of course – just about EVERY offshoot of Protestant Christianity in the world claims that, and Two House movement is no exception but merely one of the latest in the long-running series. However, have you researched British Israelism? If you had, you’d know that Two House movement is nothing but a rehash of BI (but one that is combined with their interpretation of “Torah observance”).
“…debate…You can recommend any ground rules you think are appropriate and you can even select a moderator for the debate. Sound fair?”
Honestly, Peter, this does sound VERY tempting. I’ll think about it. In the mean time, as others have already said, create a blog and post your defense of your Two-House beliefs there for the world to see.
I respect your offer Peter, many people who are most critical of others and try and demean them are cowards and can only do so on their own pages where they have all their supporters with them and where they can block and delete the opposition’s comments. Then they continue their cowardly actions by talking about them after they removed the person from the conversation. If Derek and his followers are so sure they are right and other’s are stupid let them join in an open debate without hiding behind their administrative powers of their own page. I would be happy to join the discussion and guarantee you I am not intimidated by their groupthink appointed titles and websites.
As I’ve mentioned before Peter, it’s really unlikely that anyone is going to consent to a live debate with you. If you want to actually be able to fully express the information you have for your viewpoint, you might want to take control over your message and create a blog of your own (really, it’s not that hard, especially using Blogger). Otherwise the evidence for your perspective will never find an outlet and no one will have the ability to examine it and respond.
+1 to James’s suggestion. Peter, in all seriousness–have you considered laying out your arguments and evidence for us on a blog? I’m willing to consider anything shared in a reasoned and agreeable way.
As far as this article, though I may not agree with the original video, it seems to me that Derek and all the company men for UMJC tend to be people who discredit others and then stand in a group to validate each other. The fact is that your title of Rabbi is just a group of other messianics who did what was right in their own eyes and then started giving Rabbi school to those who validated their ideas. The posts I have read of yours have all followed the same line which is how everyone else is not valid but you and your UMJC. Which really equates to you do what is right in your eyes and the people who agree make you feel you are right. Well every group does this. Just because you can criticize others doesn’t make you right. I fear as much for the people who follow the mega church Messianics as I do those who follow UMJC or any other groupthink religious groups. It all comes down to obeying Torah and letting it be your authority not men’s foolish groups and self-serving titles.
Messianic Torah, I was wondering if you were going to return to Derek’s blog again. I notice you make some rather strong comments, but it would be helpful if you provided more details regarding your background, your specific beliefs (as opposed to just saying you’re against what Derek has to say on his own blog), and what evidence you have to back up your statements. I tried to ask you to fill in some of these gaps in the comments you made on another of Derek’s posts, but you either didn’t see what I’d said or chose not to reply for some reason.
Most other people are willing to say not only what they believe but why they believe it when they express an opposing comment in these discussions. I’d be interested to hear your side of things without the apparent “emotionalism” you have attached to Derek’s point of view.
Are you willing to enter into such a dialog this time around?
You seem very very critical of real-world religious communities, but very sure that your own religious absolutism is the only right way. Bad form, man.
Pontificating much Derek?
I have not seen any Hebrew Roots, Messianic, Two House or whatever group support this strange fiasco. You are just being opportunistic here.
Bill,
I haven’t seen any Hebrew Roots or Two House groups denounce the fiasco yet either, but I haven’t looked since Friday. It would be good to see though.
Yahnatan
The Messianic Israel Alliance issued a statement about the situation this weekend and explained that Messer had offered to help the organization get off the ground in the late 1990′s, so they invited him to speak at some of their conferences. The statement also said that he had tried to take over the organization over a decade ago, but when that was refused he left and took as many people with him as he could. The MIA has not associated with him since, and they thoroughly disavowed his actions at New Birth Missionary Baptist.
It was not posted to their website last time I looked, but I believe it will be soon.
Derek, you wrote:
” The spirit, enthusiasm, and loud vocal patterns in the black Baptist churches I have visited — the good ones with trained ministers accountable to a denomination — are nothing like the televangelist trash culture. It’s no coincidence that in the movie “Keeping the Faith,” Ben Stiller’s character (a Reform rabbi) called on the local AME (or maybe Baptist) church choir to come and teach his members how to have spirit when singing the “Ein Keloheinu”!”
Hear, hear!!!
that’s a great movie…and a great scene.
I wonder if certain people who have commented on this blog post such as “Messianic Torah” actually have a legitimate point to make. I am not trying to be a pain, but it seems like he/she (sorry, but the “label” doesn’t communicate a specific gender identity) pops in, says something like, “I disagree with you” and then leaves. Perhaps it would be helpful if everyone who has a point to make, actually makes it by trying to explain *why* they disagree and how they support their alternate point of view. I’m always concerned about people who shy away from answering direct questions that are put to them in a reasonable and polite manner.
I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, “Messianic Torah.” Try to work with me, here. Thanks.
Hi Derek,
You commented on Judah’s blog: “It seems to me also that you and J.K. represent the most moderate wing of Two House (you might even really be in a completely different camp and might consider another label).”
A couple of questions simply because I am curious: Where do you draw the line between moderate and some other wing of Two House? And what label do you suggest?
Thanks!
I have to agree with Messianic Torah. I perceive, though all may not agree, that exactly what Messer and his cohorts did in their antics is, on another level, being done here… only in writings, with degrees, education, fancy words, “training” and “titles” and if there be any other thing of man including insults, mockery, self aggrandizement (now that’s a big word for me) associations, etc.
(Acts 4:13 ) In Yeshua sending his Spirit to live in us even unlearned and ignorant men may be bold in Messiah and be converted without the help of other men who want to rule over us.
Matthew 10:19 Who will give me in that hour I am delivered up what to speak? Will it be “rabbis” or “pastors” to teach us what to speak? Somehow it seems even the lowliest of us will succeed without their help for we have one who is greater. Among us brothers, we are not to rule over one another.
I will willingly wash your feet and challenge you to wash one another. Rather than a duel of words, a rush to our knees to see who gets to the feet first. Shalom
Steven:
Let me get this right: someone here (me?) insisted that our graduate education or title or position have us privilege or dominance over someone else? Do tell. When and where did we do that? And also, help me understand, you’re saying that you are a meek and humble person and we should be ashamed we’re not as modest and humble as you?
Your comment is demeaning. Not humble. No one was trying to assert any authority over you or Ralph Messer.
I simply declared to the world — which looked on to Messer’s ignorance and self-important sensationalism as reflecting on Messianic Judaism — that Ralph Messer’s actions are not indicative of Messianic Judaism, what we think Torah is all about, or our view of faith. If you are a Messer fan, more power to you. If you are not, why bother commenting?
Derek,
I had to look up the word demeaning to make sure I was in fact being demeaning. I found this: “to lower in dignity, honor, or standing”. I think that is what foot washing is all about. I think Yeshua lowered himself and set our example. Do you try to make me feel small as though I should not bother commenting because I am nobody? Or because you are serving me in the love of Messiah?
I think that is what messiah torah meant by “It seems the atmosphere in here stinks of arrogance and elitism. Like the pharisees of Mashiach’s day. I have seen on this and many sites where you are applauded if you agree with the group and you all pat each other one the backs then when someone comes in with a opposing view, you attack them and criticize them and belittle them with rhetoric and insults.”
Why bother commenting? Because my hope is we can all lower ourselves in dignity, honor and standing and become more like Yeshua. Still hoping sir! Shalom
Without speaking to anything Messer did (who I never heard of before this blog) I found just a few Elitist comments on this blog but you accuse me of thinking too much of myself? Since we are clearly allowed to talk about Messer and Long when they are not here to defend themselves, surely I can talk about you to your face?
Elitist comments :
“which expects some level of decorum, accountability, and education in a rabbi and at a synagogue.”
Comment: who decides what level of decorum, accountability and education is expected? The common man or elites? Elites!
“my recent attempts to classify”
Comment: who decides they have the right to classify people? The common man or elites? Elites!
“crazy Christian groups”
Comment: help me to understand, you are saying you are better than them? Elitist!
“the good ones with trained ministers accountable to a denomination — are nothing like the televangelist trash culture”
Comment: help me to understand, you are saying you are not only better than them, but REALLY better than that trash? Elitist!
“holy relics which will elevate a person TO A HIGHER STATUS with God or in the world”
Comment: Who says we must elevate ourselves in status when God says we must humble ourselves? Elitist!
“A rabbi or pastor in a denomination doesn’t need to self-authenticate or prance like a rooster.”
Comment: Who says that is what happens, the common man or elitist? Elitist!
“leaders in Messianic Judaism, Judeo-Christianity, and whatever other groups out there want to call themselves should not use the term “rabbi” for themselves if they have not completed the kind of training and have not received ordination by a body of rabbis who have overseen their education.”
Comment: Who says? The common man or elitist? Elitist!
“if you have not earned the title “rabbi.”
Comment: who insists on puffing themselves up with titles and guarding their status? Elites
“it is inappropriate for any non-Jew to use the title “rabbi.”
Comment : who says? Elites, those who have elevated themselves above their brothers.
“Judeo-Christian groups led by non-Jews need to find titles and nomenclature that are more appropriate. “
Comment: I think I have made my point.
Stephen:
If you wanted to serve people, you wouldn’t go out of your way to comment to strangers (which is what we are): you are prideful, but I am humble; just wanted to drop in and wash your feet.
Stephen:
Fake humility comment:
“I will willingly wash your feet”
Oo, another one:
“a rush to our knees to see who gets to the feet first”
Not … buying … it.
Derek, hey, that’s exactly what Yeshua did come to think of it. You probably think he was fake humble too?